On this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, hosts Asher Mathew & Kelly Sarabyn engage in a compelling discussion on the impacts of social media. They are joined by author Tobias Rose-Stockwell, known for his book "Outrage Machine,"
Tobias, a seasoned researcher in technology's societal impacts, shares insights gathered over a decade of study. His expertise sheds light on how platforms like Slack can disrupt workplace dynamics and productivity.
The episode delves into the complexities of social media's influence, exploring themes of workplace disruption, productivity challenges, and strategies for enhancing online trust and fact-checking. Listeners gain valuable insights into navigating the evolving landscape of social media and its broader implications.
00:00 - Social media's impact on workplace productivity and interpersonal relationships.
7:56 - How digital communication changes social dynamics in the workplace.
12:38 - How social media impacts moral emotions and mental health.
16:32 - Social media companies' ethical issues and how they prioritize engagement over morality.
21:03 - LinkedIn's algorithm and its impact on content visibility and toxicity.
27:51 - LinkedIn algorithm and content optimization.
31:50 - Creating and managing online communities, with a focus on engagement and outcomes.
35:30 - Content moderation challenges in social media platforms.
39:19 - Improving social media fact-checking through community-driven, AI-augmented platforms.
43:35 - Building trust in social media with a focus on verification engines and trust and safety teams.
Tobias shares his decade-long study on the topic and the seven-year process of writing the book, touching upon interpersonal relationships outside of work. Tobias discusses social media's impact on empathy, creativity, and focus, while Kelly provides insights from the company's perspective on polarization and its effects. Tobias argues that internal company tools, such as Slack, have similar mechanics and negative effects as external social media platforms. He explains that the design of these tools alters how employees interact interpersonally, ultimately affecting their performance and productivity.
Asher introduces the topic of how Slack changes social dynamics in the workplace, with Kelly noting that written communication affects interpretation. Tobias adds that writing in a textbox alters how information is conveyed, leaving ambiguities for interpreters. While he highlights the power of text-based communication, he also acknowledges its limitations. Tobias further explains that in-person interactions have a higher threshold for speaking up, which can lead to drawbacks in emotional expression and unspoken thoughts.
Asher discusses how social media algorithms prioritize content with moral emotion, shaping online discourse. Tobias explains that his research involves interviewing academics, designers, and industry professionals to understand the impact of technology on society.
Asher invites Tobias to share his insights on tech companies, highlighting both their positive and negative aspects. Tobias argues that social media companies prioritize engagement over accuracy, which causes problems for their audience. He notes that TikTok has attempted to curate its content to avoid outrage and polarizing material, but suggests this may be a strategic move rather than a moral one.
Asher prompts Tobias to discuss how internal research on social media platforms was shut down due to whistleblower reports. Kelly comments that outrage does not perform well on LinkedIn or internal Slack channels. Kelly then discusses LinkedIn's early days, noting that the implementation of a feed led to spikes in garbage content and spam. LinkedIn addressed this by establishing norms for content allowed on the platform, selecting specific influencers for global reach. Tobias explains how social media platforms' algorithms shape the norms of online spaces, affecting content prioritization and user interaction. LinkedIn's professional atmosphere and algorithms create a less toxic environment compared to other platforms, with norms emerging and being reinforced through these algorithms.
Asher asks Kelly to discuss the complexity of LinkedIn's algorithm, which considers factors like connections, engagement, and content quality to determine reach and visibility. Tobias highlights the ongoing cat-and-mouse game between LinkedIn and its users, emphasizing the need for a balance between transparency and spam prevention. He mentions that LinkedIn's algorithm is constantly evolving, making it challenging to manipulate and reach desired audiences. Kelly questions the effectiveness of templated content on LinkedIn and other social media platforms, seeking recommendations for optimizing long-term success.
Asher discusses how designers and engineers use tools to boost engagement, often resulting in unintended consequences such as increased outrage. He describes a phenomenon where individuals form private peer groups within larger online communities, leading to reduced interaction in public channels. Solutions proposed include encouraging individuals to share their feelings openly and finding methods to make private peer groups more visible and accessible to the broader community.
Asher prompts Tobias to propose design solutions for social media companies like LinkedIn and X, emphasizing the importance of ensuring algorithmic operations reflect egalitarian principles. Tobias highlights the inverse relationship between truth and virality online, illustrating how false information can spread rapidly as a consequence.
Asher invites Tobias to propose several measures to combat viral misinformation on social media platforms. Tobias suggests scaling up community-driven fact-checking mechanisms and embedding citations from reputable sources in content to validate information. He advocates for a Wikipedia-style crowd-sourced fact-checking system to improve content moderation. Additionally, Tobias proposes an augmented user interface that integrates human input with AI to verify information in real-time, aiming to enhance accuracy and reliability across social media platforms.
Asher learns about Trust and Safety Teams (TSTs) within product organizations that work to mitigate harmful content on social media platforms, handling issues like child abuse, violence, and Sybil attacks despite being often hidden and politicized. Kelly expresses hope for embedding fact-checking in social networks inspired by Wikipedia's neutrality. Tobias, discusses his book and consulting services, emphasizing his expertise in designing for complex systems and using design thinking to tackle challenges in technology.
"I feel like LinkedIn is really changing. When I first started using it, it was a straightforward network where people had small circles. Now it seems like there are ccircles within circles. Different content is shown to different people, even in different countries. There was this creative explosion initially, but now every week I hear people frustrated because their reach and impressions are down. It feels like we've fallen into the situation you're describing." - Asher Mathew
"There's some really interesting research and history regarding LinkedIn's efforts to make its feed less toxic. Back in the day, most social media platforms didn't even have a news feed. When LinkedIn started, it was more about who you were connected to rather than having a feed. They implemented a feed early on, but then they actually turned it off due to spikes in garbage content, spam, and other issues typical of user-generated content networks. After a hiatus, they restarted the feed, around 2017 if I remember correctly, in a read-only format. They also selected specific influencers who could post to the feed, aiming for global reach with a small number of chosen influencers in the early days." - Tobias Rose-Stockwell
"I do think Wikipedia is a great example. People perceive it as very neutral, right? I've never heard anyone say, 'Wikipedia has a liberal bias' or something like that. It just comes across as neutral. I think it's hopeful that this neutrality can be embedded into social networks." - Kelly Sarabyn
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